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Eurosceptic Bloggers

Friday, September 15, 2006

Not a Good Argument

One of the reasons that Turkey fails to convince the EU at its members' citizens that it should be able to join, is the really bad arguments of many of its supporters. This is a classic.

Turkey’s full membership to the EU is supported by all the Muslim countries. Many Middle Eastern countries, including Egypt and Palestine, have openly expressed their enthusiasm to see Turkey as a full member of the EU. Even countries like Syria and Iran, which are seen as “enemy” by the West, have stated that they would be pleased to be neighbor with the EU with Turkey’s membership, and that they supported Turkey in the membership process.
To which the only rational answer can be so what. Other Muslim countries want Turkey to join so we are obliged to act?
There are no Muslim representatives in the G-8 or among the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. To put it short, there are serious representation deficiencies in global governance.
Further weakening his argument. What this is effectively saying, is that he sees Turkish membership of the EU as getting Muslim representation at the top table. How is this going to persuade European who are frightened (obviously wrongly in his opinion) of 70 million new Muslim members.
EU’s rejection of Turkey on the ground that it is a Muslim country and reconstruction of the EU on the basis of Christian fanaticism will turn the much-expected miracle into impossibility, and in a sense, will justify how right the extremities such as al-Qaeda are. In this case, it will be a mere dream to think that the conflicts will be confined to Beirut, Baghdad or Ramallah.
Which sounds like a threat. Not the best way to convince sceptics is it.

And there is one final thing, he starts the article thus:

Almost all the unsuccessful politicians in many of the EU countries have recently been talking about the issue of Turkey’s full membership to the EU.
And then goes on to mention Sarkozy more than once. If Sarko is a failure, I wonder what a success looks like?


FranceSucks said...

The US supports Turkey entry. Like anyone would expect them to trash a strategic NATO ally despite bad recent behavior. The best reason I can think of to oppose Turkey is that it would make one vote one citizenship democracy in europe impossible. With a larger population than Germany but a GDP/person of a third world country allowing Turkey to vote in the EU would amount to dhimmitude.

Anonymous said...

Sarkozy the future of the EU ?. Then there is no future.

James Higham said...

As you would know, I run French articles and Figaro and LeMonde are the sites for material. Sarkozy is not a shoe-in for the Presidency. Rather it might just be a female, now Villepin is off the map. At least, that's the prevailing mood.

Anonymous said...

Look at it from a different angle.

The EU as it is presently constituted is apparently a " trundling bureacratic comatose living form". The essence of corruption and decay is so ingrained in the pshyche and outward manifestations of its popular and not so popular expressions that the question to ponder is whether this mamooth gob of muck and slime is worth to keep itself afloat. A looming catastrophe is appearing on the horizon, with the inclusion of Turkey in the EU, all hypocritically pretense that the EU is a European continental bloc would be dealt with at the stroke of a pen. Maybe the looming catastrophe is in reality Turkey's entry, what comes after such a catastrophe is the question and the keepers of holy Europe - if there is such a thing- should do well to ponder and prepare for the days after.

The balance is tilting dangerously against the vanishing of Europe, it remains to be seen if a demoralized continent, wracked and plagued by a continuing occupation military force for the last 60 years - an oppresion by spiritual and moral values alien to its soul , the psychic rape of its mind, thoughts and value world concepts, incessant indoctrination to feel demeaned, guilty ,and for ever repentant for he historical role, the mongrelization of its native inhabitants, the deliberate and targeted uncheked invasion by an immigration of uncultured and diverse currents of religion and colors into its habitat - is capable and has the capacity to renew herself and regain her former self.

MadBadTurk said...

As a Turk opposed to EU membership, I agree with you, albeit from a different angle.

Turkey is the first country which might be beyond the EU's ability to digest. Partly due to its size, partly due to its Bulgaro-Romanian level of income, partly due to its agriculture, and partly due to its cultural identity.

The first three are the most important issues but the last is the one that provokes the atavistic response. On the Turkish side, there are deep fears of wholesale conversions of the Turkish populace to the idolatrous veneration of saints or indeed of the deeply unsettling religious practices of Quakers. And on the European, fear of the "other". In this, the two sides are equally matched, if at opposite ends. But, after all, a blinkered outlook is hardly the province of any one nation.

On the Turkish side, the reasons for membership - economic or political - are not particularly compelling. We haven't spent the last fifteen years dismantling economic red tape in order to wrap our business in the 80-odd thousand pages of the EU acquis.

Granted the EU is vastly more wealthy. So what? It's not what we need.

As for political: it would be jolly nice to have the extra stiffening that the EU is *supposed* to bring, but not wholly necessary.

So I find myself agreeing with you. Do keep up with the good work of helping us anti-EU'ers here.

Serf said...


I didn't want to imply that he was a shoe in. However, he has rather hogged the headlines in the last couple of years and is still among the favourites. So to right him off at this stage as a loser is just wishful thinking.

Serf said...


I personally think it would be economic suicide for Turkey to join the EU. I can't understand the motivation, but then I am a wild eyed crazy capitalist.

We haven't spent the last fifteen years dismantling economic red tape in order to wrap our business in the 80-odd thousand pages of the EU acquis.

You make my argument for me. As for being richer, at the rate things are going, thats a temporary state of affairs.