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Eurosceptic Bloggers

Thursday, June 15, 2006

Help for Hoon

Geoff Hoon needs your help.

On the eve of the EU summit in Brussels Britain’s new Minister of State for Europe Geoff Hoon called today for a new debate on Britain’s’ place in the EU
My Suggestion is as follows. Why not help Mr Hoon in his quest and email him at the following address: waltersa@parliament.uk with you suggestions.

Britain’s’ place in the EU = Waving out the back window as we leave, or Britain’s’ place in the EU = Causing as much grief as possible

Depending of course on your viewpoint

25 comments:

Gary Elsby said...

The debate would be most welcome.

For far too long, the anti's have belittled and rubbished the EU.

In other words, they 'bite the hand that feeds them'.

Most people that attack Europe, haven't got a clue. The Tories set it all up and the small band of wreckers within that once great party are busily sticking the boot in now. Funny isn't it that they wreck and stick the boot into their own party as they go, but too daft to realise it.

Europe has given us peace for 60 years and is attempting, with great success,to stabilise currencies and markets.

No EU or a British withdrawl means a return to the disasters that the Tory part inflicted upon us.
No more.

The EU and Euro argument is won the moment senior politicians announce the decision to fight for it.

Gary

David Webster said...

Some small things here:
"The Tories set it all up." The EU started originally as an agreement between France and Germany to work together. They famously rejected our application for membership twice. When we did join, we had to do it on their rules. In what way did the tories "set it all up"?

"they 'bite the hand that feeds them'" We feed the EU to the tune of £5bn a year, soon to increase due to the daft blair budget. The money comes from us, not the EU. They are biting the hand that feeds them, not the other way around.

"the small band of wreckers within that once great party are busily sticking the boot in now." Is that why 146 tory MPs out of approx. 200 voted to overrule the act bringing us into the EU? And why the grassroots voted for a candidate promising to take us out of the daft EPP?

Europe has given us peace for 60 years and is attempting, with great success,to stabilise currencies and markets." So why is the euro at crisis point in Italy?

Broadly applaudable sentiments, but specifically wrong.

Serf said...

First: What David said.

Second: What we Eurosceptics have been waiting for is for Tony Blair to stand up and support the EU and all its works. Make a true fight of it.

Given a referendum campaign, we could have trashed the Europhile argument forever. Instead, we watch as cliches like "Europe has given us peace for 60 years" are repeated ad infinitum.

In short, the EU gives us nothing that we could not get from a free trade agreement. But it takes a hell of a lot more away.

John Coles said...

""Europe has given us peace for 60 years.."". Dear God, you must be very young. Europe did precious little for peace during the stand-off with the Warsaw Pact. France withdrew from NATO, Germany and Holland were unionised out by their armed forces, Italy wallowed round in its usual laughable way, Greece flirted with fascism whilst Spain and Portugal had the real thing - remember Salazar and Franco? The only effective guardians of peace were the USA, the United Kingdom and Norway. Your facile observations might go down well in a sixth form debate, this is a grown-up forum - sharpen up.

dizzy said...

I'm up for option two right now, but you knew that probably :-)

malcolm said...

It really is pointless trying to argue with Gary Elsby chaps.He has about as much regard for facts or truth as his hero Alistair Campbell.I do not fo one minute think that he believes any of this drivel,he posts just to wind you up.Unfortunately he has succeeded.

Anonymous said...

Guido Fawkes's blog: Gary Elsby is actually Peter Mandelson's nom de plume.

Anonymous said...

forget that last comment.

Ross F said...

{Geoff Hoon called today for a new debate on Britain’s’ place in the EU}

Is that a "debate" as in having all sides air their views and then considering them in detail.
OR.....
Is it a "debate" in the sense of the EU and Government spending millions of pounds of public money on a propaganda campaign denouncing anyone who disagrees with them as xenophobes?

David Webster said...

It's of course the second option. The EU don't do democracy. (Sounds like that Labour Do Not Do site)

After all the constitution 'debate' started by Blair tellling us how useless the constitution was, then when he came back from Brussels one day, it became vital for British interest (apparantly).

The EU are not governed by British electoral law, so while the eurosceptics can only pay a certain amount to campaign against the EU, the EU can spend unlimited amounts of money.

Definitely an EU sort of debate.

Gary Elsby stoke-on-trent said...

The conservative party continues to delude itself because of a few disgruntled members who have overseen it's demise from a once great party, to the position it's in now.
Be my guest in best suicide note written to date.

The conservative party created the British participation document that allowed our entry and we reap the benefits today.The Tories set it up.

Heath, Thatcher and Major continued to sign anything that came before them to secure, even further, our committment to the cause.
Tony, signed a small document-the social chapter- and adjusted correctly, the financial contribution.
The EPP is the Tories saviour and not its enemy. Pull out and sit with Jean Marie Le-Pen and see what happens back home. It will be fun!
The Italians may be in a pickle over currency and inflation but can't do their usual trick of de-valuing because we won't let them.
Tough, isn't it.

A free trade agreement only guarantees trade. It does not guarantee against underhand tactics of failing economies.The Euro is a perfect referee against such tactics.
The EU gives us nothing? Behave, its given us everything and a land fit for heroes.Can't wait for the referendum fight.
The EU hasn't given us peace? Of course it has. It guarantees Democracy and Democracies never wage war upon each other.
You are quite entitled to disagree with Geoff Hoon and campaign against the EU. You have destroyed your own party, its chances of ever becoming great again and I commend you for it.

Gary

malcolm said...

Gary Elsby has just proved my earlier point.

Croydonian said...

Some wars in Europe since 1945:

Soviet invasion of Hungary 1956
Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia 1968
Yugslav wars - ongoing
Armenia / Azerbaijan - ongoing
Terrorist actions in the UK, France, Italy, Spain, Germany etc etc.

None of which were prevented by the EU, and in the case of Yugoslavia were made considerably worse. Or do you draw the borders of Europe for wherever it suits your 'argument'?

Meanwhile, is this:The EU gives us nothing? Behave, its given us everything and a land fit for heroes meant to be a coherent thesis?

Gary Elsby said...

Could croydonian please refer specifically to the EU and not rely upon terrorists or dictatorships to prove a point?

Gary

Croydonian said...

Gary, I don't regard 'Europe' as a synonym for the EU. Do you?

Gary Elsby said...

My point is that membership of the EU is only granted if the rule book is observed and criteria for membership is observed.

All Democracies within the EU are guaranteed not to have war waged upon them from within or without.

NATO does not figure in this equation.

Its primary objective is free trade via the single market. This means that war or invasion is unneccessary due to these facts.

The point of the EU and its construction is therefore a masterpiece of economic co-operation between friends who were former enemies with the loss of 50,000,000 lives.

Eureka! Thank goodnes proper Tories understand this very simplistic observation.

How you so wish you elected Michael Heseltine when he wanted you to.

You foolish-foolish-foolish little Englanders!!!

Gary

Croydonian said...

All Democracies within the EU are guaranteed not to have war waged upon them from within or without.

Forgotten about the Falklands, have we?

Anonymous said...

"My point is that membership of the EU is only granted if the rule book is observed"

One recalls the french/German budget deficit infringements of above 3% deficit year on year with no punishment. Yet when Gordon exceeds the EU budget defecit rules, the Comission still give a strongly worded discontent even though they are powerless over British currency.

France and Germany don't follow this rule so according to you, they should be withdrawn from the EU.

Just following the argument through.

Gary Elsby said...

There is a justifiable argument that individual countries should be allowed to breach the 3% spending limit to offset problems domestically.

However, the rule book suggests otherwise.

So much for the myth (sun, mirror, telegraph,ITV,BBC,SKY, radio 1234,
etc etc etc..
That Europe is telling us what to do.

Gary

Croydonian said...

Either the EU is a government of Law, or it is one of Men, and I am yet to see any evidence that it is the former. A society in which there were different laws, or interpretations thereof, for some individuals would rightly attract opprobrium.

David Webster said...

So much for the myth (sun, mirror, telegraph,ITV,BBC,SKY, radio 1234,
etc etc etc..
That Europe is telling us what to do.

So the EU doesn't impose its will on Britain whether we like it or not through qualified majority voting?

If that isn't telling us what to do, what is?

Anonymous said...

For Gary Elsby
It was NATO not the EU that kept the peace in Europe after WW2.
As Gary is an enthusiast for the EU can he give me 10 benefits that the UK gains from membership of it.
Marcusa

Gary Elsby said...

Stable economy
Stable currency
Charter of rights
Freedom
Equality
Citizens rights
Justice
Single Market
Freedom to travel
Identity.
Social Charter
Peace
Power
Force
CAP
Euro
Expansion
Democracy
Invitation
Change
Security

Frightening,isn't it. Not that I or my people are frightened.
Just frightening that Torykind only likes the power and would re-introduce control to a small section of the above, namely,Great Britain and her people.
Not letting you in.Comply or forever be the outcast.

Gary

Anonymous said...

...peace? the EU?

what peace is that? Just look at what the French have been up to since World War 2, let alone anybody else!

Roger said...

Re Gary's list of the good things the EU has given us.

Stable economy & Stable currency
Only as we are out of the Euro.
Charter of rights - say what?
Freedom - Europe had bugger all to do with our Freedom. Brave British and other nationalities armies secured our freedom from abroad, and many activists have secured us freedoms from within.
Equality - with who exactly, Gary hits the vague button.
Citizens rights - boy how vague can you get?
Justice - with EU law from unelected judges taking precedence over UK law, how exactly?
Single Market - give us a break, the French alone have enough exemptions to blow this one out of the water.
Freedom to travel - we had that anyway you dimmock.
Identity - I know mine, but you Gary are really pushing the vague button now.
Social Charter - give us a break.
Peace - surely the Romans brought that, sorry that was a movie. The fact is NATO kept peace as the Soviets were frightened of the USA, NOT of an attack by any number of the European forces.
Power - Powergen surely ... what is going on in your head?
Force - the type of feeding Gary needs.
CAP - where's the missing 'R'? It's between GA & Y
Euro - the only reason we are doing well is we are as far out of this currency as Gary is from reality.
Expansion - eh! Worked for the USSR didn't it? How's that for a good socialist model.
Democracy - now I know you are an idjit.
Invitation - to what? To send unwanted politicians to board the gravy train.
Change - so would an unelected dictator or an earthquake, neither of which would be good.
Security - yeah right on that kept the Serbs in line.

I really do believe that you feel by leaving a list so vague as to be meaningless you have won. I have never met anyone so taken in by his own bull.
What the EU has given us.
Overpaid bureaucrats.
Acres of red tape.
A retirement home for politicians found to be too useless at home, one Welsh hero of yours Gary springs to mind. Little redhaired feller who has difficulty walking on sand.
And what pray are "My People". You come across like a modern day Wolfie Smith or an idiot's Messiah. Well you're not the Messiah, you're a very naughty boy, now back to bed so Cherie can tuck you in.